Yvz and I were leading a workshop on dating recently… and I think something arguably profound actually came out of my mouth. In discussing finding ‘the one’ and when you’re ‘ready’ and how we know what love is… I said…
If you can honestly love someone even if nothing about that person should ever change, OR, if everything about that person changes… then you just might be ready.
The reality is that some things about people may never ever change, and sometimes things happen that can change everything. ie. check out Robertson McQuilkin’s book “A promise kept” who drops everything to love his wife as she succumbs to Alzheimer’s.
I hear from newly weds quite often about all the ‘things’ they love about their other half. Truth is, much of what we often find so incredible about another person can disappear in a moment. This is why we ultimately long for unconditional love. When we are loved even in our must unlovely states.
I suspect this is how God is with us.
and no… i’m not suggesting anything about how yvz has changed over the years here… she’s always been crazy. I just thought it was a hilarious photo!
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October 31, 2007 at 11:01 am
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October 23, 2007 at 4:20 pm
Deana
Such good advice Lon!
That last photo is wonderful!!!
October 24, 2007 at 3:35 pm
ebrian
I think there is some truth to what you’re saying, but I think your statement “OR, if everything about that person changes” is way too broad. Alzheimers, that’s just health. Caring for loved ones while they are sick is certainly admirable, but to me that isn’t really a change. That person is still the same person hasn’t really changed.
What if a person were to, oh.. i dunno.. get a sex change? Does that count? Or, what if that person decide to reject God. Or starts worshiping the devil. I know this is quite extreme, but you did say “everything”.
October 24, 2007 at 6:49 pm
Lon
Deana, just another day in our home… pure wackiness…
ebrian… you’re right… that’s where it gets tough isn’t it…? maybe it’s the difference between being committed to love and feeling ‘in love’…
maybe when we think of marriage… it seems like we get to choose the person we marry.. and all the qualities that go with it.. but i’m convinced we often marry strangers… people change.. and grow.. core values might even change…
you bring up some good extremes.. but think about if it was your child.. who you don’t get to choose.. yet you love without knowing how they will be anyways. and should they even reject god and worship the devil… would you not be committed to loving them?
October 25, 2007 at 12:35 pm
ebrian
I don’t see how you can compare the two. One is deciding that no matter what, you’re going to marry your partner. The other is deciding whether or not to disown your own child.
October 25, 2007 at 12:53 pm
obahsomah
Lon,
I think of it this way…
When I agreed to marry Steve, I took him with all of his flaws, the good with the bad. But he made me a better person when I was with him. And I knew I didn’t want to live another day without him in it. Because when I was with him, I was a better me.
Sure he will change and I will change…but…BUT…we change TOGETHER. When/If we stop changing together…that’s where the problem begins. If he wants life to go in one direction, and I don’t, we have to stop, and talk and figure it out to get back to moving and changing together.
He and I are two very different people than when we got married…but we don’t seem at all different, because we’ve grown and changed together. And for the most part, what we believe is the same.
But that’s just us…
October 28, 2007 at 11:37 pm
Joeie
Hey:
Great discussion! Back to the comments.
I was thinking about it in this sense - “What are the deal-breakers in a relationship?”
For me, the deal-breaker in a relationship is when you decide to give up. So a deal-breaker can exist as anything, but ultimately, the choice is yours to give up on the relationship and the person. So no specific ‘things’ as deal-breakers ONCE you are in the relationship, but just a choice to give up.
I derived this answer coming from observing a situation that occurs very often in Christian relationships:
Sally and Frank are a strong Christian couple. They’ve dated for a while & have built a good relationship. However, Frank lately has been doubting his faith a lot; whether it’s transition of life stage or b/c nothing has happened at all, Frank is unsure.
So he’s questioning his faith a lot. He doesn’t pray much, doesn’t see the point of going to church, doesn’t want to read the Bible anymore, his relationship with God is pretty blah. And this blah has been going on for a good while… and because the requirement for Sally in a relationship is “Strong Christian Man”, Sally is going to break up with Frank b/c of this.
Or in more “Christian” terms - Sally is going to break up with Frank because of unequal yoking. Or divorce him. Or whatever the context.
For me, I just believe that love really does conquer all. You stick it through the good and the bad and recognize the changing of a person, even if it’s a core thing… because you love the person.
And yet, at the same time, other people I’ve talked to DO have deal-breakers and prefer it that way b/c in their sense, it means that they do not compromise what they value and believe.
I donno. It’s a really interesting debate.
October 28, 2007 at 11:40 pm
Joeie
Sorry, one more comment :). And I do agree with obahsomah - we can’t just think of relationship growth as a vaccuum. People do grow and change together.
But also, people sometimes don’t too. That’s the tough part about relationships - every relationship is different, every person is different…
October 29, 2007 at 7:09 am
ebrian
Very interesting. Well, I think where I got held up was probably in the wording. I wasn’t sure if Lon was talking to a bunch of kids about dating or marriage. Personally I don’t believe in dating, I think God can bring to people together through His will without dating — that’s how I met my fiancee — but in the context of pre-marriage and looking at extremes, deal-breakers do exist.
I think in joeie’s example, if you truly loved that person you might stick with him/her until he/she has figured out where they are stumbling and bring them back to Christ. But if they decided to reject God outright, that’d be a deal-breaker for me. Let’s not forget there are different types of love. You could love a person dearly but when something happens, the romantic love disappears. You’d still care for the person but on some level that ‘in-a-relationship-love’ wanes and eventually burns out.
In a post-marriage context, according to the Bible there are only two grounds for divorce — infidelity (Matt 5:32) and a non-Christian divorcing a Christian (1 Corinthians 7:15). We’re talking about Christian marriage though, so the latter is out the window leaving just infidelity as a ‘deal-breaker’.